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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 25 post(s)
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14655	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:07:00 - [1] - Quote Sounds like the Armageddon will become the new Phoon..you will need perfect cap warfare skills, drone skills and missile skills to fly it decently. With those changes it seems as if Cap Boosters on Amarr and Gallente will become mandatory, so the Geddon would either have to work against the enemy's CB or be against a target that won't care very much about neuting (because of capless weapon systems). So it will be neuts everywhere but hardly any targets vulnerable to neuting left. Have you considered buffing the "controlled bursts" skill? If Cap boosters were no longer the only thing that keeps Amarr and Gallente ships going, their use would become optional, thus giving cap warfare more meaning again. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14655	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:13:00 - [2] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: Eugene Kerner wrote: Eugene Kerner wrote: Geddon changes are so ********...what the hell.. quit uniforming alll the races...this is so bad... The word "R3tarded" now gets censored...are you kidding me? ^^^^ Again, I want my forum Block option! ^^^^ Again, I am giving you a like! Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14674	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:46:00 - [3] - Quote WalStyle wrote: First time comment. ...... Lies! This is your second comment. This was your first. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14680	Posted - 2013.04.08 19:59:00 - [4] - Quote On a slightly related note, I find it curious how you made the Dragoon the prototype for future Amarr ship lines. You do realize that the Dragoon is by far the least popular destroyer? Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14682	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:26:00 - [5] - Quote Sarah Schneider wrote: If the changes to geddon carries over to the faction version... RIP the only proper Amarr PVE Battleship. And I always thought the main function of the Navy Geddon was to have a robust, scary looking yet affordable ship for docking games in highsec wars... Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14682	Posted - 2013.04.08 20:52:00 - [6] - Quote Dehval wrote: No I don't have lack of insight, I just don't think this is going to be the God send hull some think it is. I understand neuting and the power it gives. I also understand how these things sound great in theory, but don't turn out so practical. I can see the potential of this in small gang pvp, but I am a player who looks for a hull to fit more than one small role. I know that is not always the case in Eve, but it is my own personal opinion to have. As for my "screwy" idea, I was trying to tie in recent events to the lore. If you only want to stick with the old stuff that is your prerogative, but I like think the lore is evolving due to current in game events. I agree with you. The bonus is not practical. It is not strong enough to effect anything other than small gang fights (and who the hell brings Battleships to those?). Larger engagements will happen at either extremely close range or extremely long. In both cases a measly 50% range bonus will do nothing. One of three things really needs to happen; Buff the range bonus to be significant, Change it to a Neut power increase per level, or completely change the bonus to something else.[/quote] But the idea of using a bunch of neutageddons with MJDs still makes me giggle. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14685	Posted - 2013.04.08 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: They don't intend the Apoc to be a brawler, they intend for it to be a kiter/sniper. You are right here, I guess, but still I don't like the idea of kiting Amarr ships. Yeah, Slicer...I know. Maybe it's LOLRP, but Amarrian ships are slow and sturdy and are not supposed to run away in my opinion. They hold the line as an unmovable force and use superior damage projection to toast all those ships that think they can stay out of range by buzzing around. If you have watched (or read) Sin City: Marvin vs that cannibal Frodo: that's how a fight Amarr vs. Minmatar is supposed to look. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14714	Posted - 2013.04.09 08:20:00 - [8] - Quote While we're at it, would it be possible for CCP to take another look at quad- and dual beam lasers? Eye-candy is not a viable combat role and maybe with better stats and low cap usage dual beam lasers could be usable on the new Geddon hull. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14786	Posted - 2013.04.09 19:42:00 - [9] - Quote A very easy and lazy fix to the cap problem would be to just give all (or most) Amarrian ships a role bonus like -20% cap use for laser weapons. Sure, a race specific role bonus would be something new and unprecedented in EVE, but if CCP intends to keep racial flavors by making lazors effective only on Amarrian ships, it would make sense without much room for abuse (like a much higher cap in general that could be used for neuts or multiple reps). Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14787	Posted - 2013.04.09 19:56:00 - [10] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: Zimmy Zeta wrote: A very easy and lazy fix to the cap problem would be to just give all (or most) Amarrian ships a role bonus like -20% cap use for laser weapons. Sure, a race specific role bonus would be something new and unprecedented in EVE, but if CCP intends to keep racial flavors by making lazors effective only on Amarrian ships, it would make sense without much room for abuse (like a much higher cap in general that could be used for neuts or multiple reps). I like this idea, but I'd go a little further with it, and have it vary by hull between 15% to 25%. Sure. Cap instability should remain the major drawback of the Baddon for example, it's how we are used to fly it and adds very much to it's special flavor. The 20% were just a random number I pulled out of my backside to trick you into believing that I had done some kind of math and was giving a well informed and balanced contribution to this thread. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse

Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14788	Posted - 2013.04.09 20:01:00 - [11] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Pelea Ming wrote: Rhnra Pahineh wrote: Okay, so people had the time to phrase their point of view. And a lot of my fellow capsulers have the same feeling as I do. However, I'd really appreciate if one guy from CCP could come in and participate in the discussion. Indeed, a number of us through out this thread have tried getting some sort of response from CCP Rise, including going over to the Gallente thread and specificly pointing him back to this one, the most he has done is, once, responded that he'd give all the threads a quick eye ball but that he didn't see any reason to post on them if he hadn't already. Personally, this makes me feel as if he's basically telling us all we can go ____ ourselves, especially as most of the time we've specifically asked him for a response in this thread, it was to specific comments, ideas, or questions that not only deserved a reply, but only a Dev could have honestly and informatively responded to. I blame Fozzie, he has spoiled us. But you have to admit that Fozzie had it a lot easier than Kil2. Fozzie was buffing crappy ships that nobody ever used, so he effectively gave us new ships and everyone was cheering. CCP Rise has to work on ships that are in use and somewhat iconic to EVE, and he can't get away with just buffing everything. People tend to react very emotional if you screw around with their favorite toys... Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14798	Posted - 2013.04.09 21:19:00 - [12] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: To me, this points to the Dragoon needing some help, maybe a role bonus to be able to effectively fit medium nos/nuets? A little off topic, but I think everything the Dragoon needs would be to double (or even triple) the neut range bonus. Small neuts are only effective against frigates, and the slow-ass Dragoon will have to rely on a frigate willing to come into range to engage it, because this ship is slower than most cruisers. And now guess what...every single frig that engaged my Dragoon so far had either projectile weapons or rockets. The Dragoon is the only ship I have flown where I haven't scored a single friggin kill. With a neut range of 20 or even 30 km you could actually support your gang and not only try to defend yourself against frigates that chose to engage you because they know that they are neut- resistant. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14798	Posted - 2013.04.09 21:38:00 - [13] - Quote Pelea Ming wrote: [quote=Zimmy Zeta] Hmm.. have you tried instead of going with a full rack of small nuets, fitting 2 or 3 med nuets to it? it'd give you quite abit more range hopefully without giving up too much cap killing, and this would slow down those proj/missile boats since it'd turn off their prop mods and make your drones able to chew them up more effectively. Dragoon has 72,5 PG A single medium Neut requires 175 PG. I wanted to love that ship when it came out, mini-curse just sounded too sweet. Just a single one of the initial batch is still alive in my hangar waiting for deployment..I called it the "Desperation fit": 3x drone Damage Amplifier II 1x Co Processor II 1x MWD 1xOmnidirectional Tracking link - Everything else left empty. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14839	Posted - 2013.04.10 21:02:00 - [14] - Quote Just read the Minmatar Battleship thread. Did I understand it correctly that the Minmatar lineup will now consist of 2 Attack Battleships (Phoon + Pest) and one Combat Battleship (Mael)? I like this a lot, it adds to the racial flavour and fits the combat philosophy of the Minmatar. Guess you know what I am going for.... I would like the same thing done for Amarr...only that they should have 3 Combat Battleships and no Attack Battleship at all. Amarr are spacebricks with friggin lazorbeams, the mere idea of a fast kiting battleship defies everything the Amarrian empire stands for. So I'd like to see the Apoc (love those changes, by the way) become a tad slower and quite a bit sturdier as the third Amarrian Combat Battleship. I just realized that the true power of the Apoc will not (only) be superior range..with a bonus both to optimal and tracking the Apoc will the perfect ship to make use of Conflag to melt the enemy up close. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14844	Posted - 2013.04.10 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote So...after the first shock and disbelief from yesterday has worn off I am right now sitting here, sipping a Martini and thinking about those changes in a calmer state of mind while the alcohol is slowly killing a bunch of unnecessary braincells. (Didn't want them anyway) The changes to the Amarrian battleships look quite interesting on second look, and i think it's a good time to be an Amarrian battleship pilot. Abaddon: Almost nothing has changed, will stay as popular as ever. Apocalypse: I am falling more and more in love with this ship and I already know that the ConflApoc will be my favorite battleship in EVE. Just needs a bit more armor. I didn't do the math, so I cannot say anything about CPU or PG. Armageddon: I used to love the old Geddon, such a drastic change makes me sad. But even in the case that it turns out to be a bummer like the Dragoon, it offers a lot of room for different fun fits to play around. A funny little toy and potentially a deadly killing machine. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 14880	Posted - 2013.04.11 08:15:00 - [16] - Quote fukier wrote: i think large beams need a boost. so this is what i would do: reduce pg of beams and tachs by 25% and then reduce cap activation cost by 10% and increase optimal range by 15% Large Beams do need a boost, but I think with your proposal they would become too similar to railguns. I'd like to see a special niche for them, so I would suggest (besides obviously reducing PG requirements) to massively buff their tracking instead. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15081	Posted - 2013.04.11 19:01:00 - [17] - Quote Arline Kley wrote: If CCP are utterly convinced that they need to change the Armageddon design for the upcoming expansion, make it more like the Augoror - a ship designed for POSITIVE cap warfare; Another small change that would add a lot of funny gameplay options: since energy vampires, neuts and energy transfer arrays require the same skill anyway, let the ship bonus affect all three modules and let the players decide how to use it. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15166	Posted - 2013.04.11 22:00:00 - [18] - Quote Rynnik wrote: (good stuff) Agreed. I never saw much point in a 6 gun Apoc, but you, sir, convinced me. And with the 8 low slot Apoc, just classify it as the third Combat Battleship, and we will have a nice lineup across the four races that should match the intended design philosophy: Minmatar: 2 Attack 1 Combat Gallente: 2 Combat 1 Attack Caldari: 1 Combat 1 Attack 1 Disruption Amarr: 3 Combat Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15334	Posted - 2013.04.13 21:25:00 - [19] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: I'm sorry, but when was the last time you saw a fleet based heavily on Armageddons? RvB - Eve Uni war, Battle at Aldrat, must have been late February or early March this year. "Bring Navy Geddons or Geddons, or any other armor battleship if you can't fly those. Or any other battleship if you cannot fly armor. Or anything that can shoot if you cannot fly battleships. Or anything that can explode if you cannot shoot." That's as close as it gets to a RvB fleet doctrine Our Geddon- heavy fleet was great and amazingly successful. The old Geddon was as great concerning cost/ performance and I loved it dearly. But since with the tiericide one of the main strengths of the Geddon- it's extremely low price- will disappear, I don't mind if this ship gets a total makeover now to try something new. The niche "dirt-cheap resilient heavy laser platform" will simply no longer exist after the next expansion. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15344	Posted - 2013.04.14 10:21:00 - [20] - Quote So I played around with the new stats in EFT a little. The Apoc seems to be a little low on CPU right now - with mandatory modules like MWD, Heavy Cap Booster (no way this ship will be viable without it, even with MWD turned off it will deplete its cap by firing the guns alone within 3 m 16 s with all level 5 skills), 3 Heatsinks, TC II, DCU II and 1 EANM II, I was already so low on CPU that I had to fill the remaining low with an ANP II and had to put a Cap recharger II into the remaining mid slot for lack of a better option due to lack of CPU. (My fit had 81k EHP, 973 m/s, exactly 1000 dps with Conflag @ 27 +13 and 760 dps with Scorch @ 80+ 13) 2 ACR and one Large Processor Overclocking Unit would be needed to fit a full rack of Tachyons (also with max skills)- but only if you forfeit the MWD and fit an AB instead. Right now I am playing around with Geddon fits a little- you can make some oddball fun setups with this ship, but overall I fear that it is not focused enough to excel in any role except the obvious torpedo setup. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse

Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15350	Posted - 2013.04.14 11:39:00 - [21] - Quote PVE setup for the Apoc: 8x MPL II 3x Cap Recharger II 1x TC II 2x HS II 1x EANM II 2x Hardeners II 1x LAR II 1x Cap Power Relay II Aux. Nanopump Energy Collision Accelerator CCC 5x Hammerhead II With all level 5 skills 11m 50s with Scorch ( 708 dps @ 71+13) or INMF (847 dps @ 24 +13). Capstable with Gamma or above. Plenty of Grid and CPU left. So I guess it will be viable for PVE, even for less experienced players. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 15375	Posted - 2013.04.14 20:50:00 - [22] - Quote After further consideration, I am starting to question if the whole "tiericide" idea for battleships is a good idea in general. Of course, we are all acting as if we were incredibly spacerich and sneeze out technetium every few seconds, but fact is that for many players price is still a factor as far as battleships are concerned. (It surely is a factor for me) The tiericide was incredibly helpful for the frigates and cruisers, both being so cheap already that cost was never a factor so only combat performance had to be matched. But with battleships, cost becomes a relevant factor. For the cost of one Abaddon (around 240M) you could get about 3 Geddons (around 80 M). Being cheap is a relevant niche and role of it's own. I fear that with the upcoming adjustments to mineral costs, all battleship hulls will cost maybe around 150M isk, totally eliminating the option to go cheap and pushing those pilots into the already loathed tier 3 battlecruisers as the only remaining alternative. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 16079	Posted - 2013.04.21 17:41:00 - [23] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Lasers look cool. Nothing else matters. Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse
Zimmy Zeta Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 16243	Posted - 2013.04.22 19:54:00 - [24] - Quote SlaughterhouseDb wrote: T...T...TACHYON GATLING LASERS! And they have to roar when they fire, AAAAUUUUUUURRRRUUUUUMMMM. AAAUURRRUMM? AURUM? Aurum? Don't you dare bringing my precious Gatling Tachyons into connection with the NeX or Aurum or anything like this Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse

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